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For Tater et al: by d.- on 2001-09-14 12:24:22

-- just read a great quote, to wit: "We are poised on the edge of the millenium -- ruin behind us, no map before us, the taste of fear sharp on our tongues. Yet we shall leap." I had picked up a little book at the library called: "Apocalypse 2000" by Andrei Codrescu and this was in the preface. Anywho... Thanks for the dialogue, Tater -- I need words, and lot's of 'em! Scrambled eggs on paper... Every other person I talk to wants retaliation and to take out Bin Laden. Every OTHER person I talk to says more killing won't help. So, here's the division in thinking right here, right now. I believe one of the speakers this morning in National Cathedral said: Justice, not retaliation. But, what do these people want?? If we gave them what they want, would it be enough? If we imprisoned Bin Laden for life and tried to dialogue with him, get inside his head, see how it thinks, why he did what he did -- why his hate is so great -- would it matter?? And EVEN IF we could find out WHY he thinks a certain way, I myself could never think that way, so of what need do I have for this new information? It's like watching those expose shows: 'Inside the mind of a killer' -- and they interview a serial killer. And the guy has his ten minutes of fame talking about how he enjoyed filleting his victims and hanging them on the wall. This is distorted thinking. It CAN'T be fixed. Bin Laden's on a mission and his death will be no deterrent. His worldwide posse would only avenge him further... speaking of which -- my concern is that there will now be 'copycat suicides' because other terrorists have seen that it can be done (on a large scale AND successfully at that!) and so we're just a big fat fucking target. Hey! -- it's open season on America! C'mon down!! So. It's not over 'til it's over... As for myself I believe that what doesn't indeed kill you WILL make you stronger. In wartime, I'd like to see what I'M actually made of!! More later, Your faithful servant -- d.-

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Re: For Tater et al: by tommie on 2001-09-14 12:46:23  |  Reply to this
  You make a very excellent point: if we did give "these people" what they want, would they then get on with their lives? Or, would they "find" some other reason to hate us or some other persons to hate? What is the real agenda? I found one report from MSNBC very interesting... that several people reported that two of the terrorist in Florida had frequented a bar, where they drank and flashed wads of money. Drinking alcohol is completely inconsistent with Islam, especially with the fundamentalists.
Re: Re: For Tater et al: by Mad Molly on 2001-09-15 11:42:02  |  Reply to this
  I dunno, Tommie -- what would you do the day before you're about to get a free pass into Heaven, no questions asked? Not that I didn't wonder about the same things, mind you. But it's not inconceivable that they decided to do stuff they'd only thought about before. Also, maybe they were cultural fundamentalists rather than religious fundamentalists. There's a lot of that on the U.S. side too.
Re: Re: For Tater et al: by Tetra Grammaton on 2001-09-15 16:46:14  |  Reply to this
  This is not really so very surprising. bin Laden himself had a big reputation as a drinker and a gambler before he went to Afghanistan. Look at Christians in this country. It's an old rule: sin on Friday, pray on Sunday.

I don't think anybody is saying that if we pulled all of our troops out of Saudi Arabia - to take bin Laden's primary demand - that the people involved would say, "Ah, cheers, mate! We'll go back to goat farming now!"

But we can look at our actions, and we can look at the hatred we've seen from ordinary citizens - not terrorists, and ask if there are changes we could make that would help the conditions that engender those feelings. More with an eye to the future than as any kind of solution for the present.
Re: Re: Re: For Tater et al: by tommie on 2001-09-16 09:58:41  |  Reply to this
  And, as you say in your last paragraph "look at our own actions", I beleive that there is nothing more important that individual citizens can do than to treat every other human being with respect. I've heard all of my life that "you have to earn respect." I disagree. I believe that every human being, sans sociopaths, deserve respect.

Re: For Tater et al: by Hugh Jhass on 2001-09-16 10:38:01  |  Reply to this
  I'm going to stay away from places frequented by fat cats.